tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post5146861455141732943..comments2024-03-12T10:20:01.684+02:00Comments on Coffee and Chemo: Gifts of Time: Special Moments with my Eldest (and Youngest) DaughterRivkA with a capital Ahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09411034058195730044noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-5651595107834408342008-10-28T13:21:00.000+02:002008-10-28T13:21:00.000+02:00Lena -- read the link. Decisions are not made by ...Lena -- read the link. Decisions are not made by some lone rabbi. There are many <B>prominent</B> rabbis who have written about this issue.<BR/><BR/>The main issue, if I understand correctly, is whether opening an umbrella is like building a tent. There are other issues besides the question of construction.<BR/><BR/>The issue is not one of "work," which is an inaccurate translation of the term <I>melakha</I>.<BR/><BR/>There is no prohibition against work -- in fact, most homemakers (read: moms) work very hard on Shabbat. ;-)<BR/><BR/>The way I see it, Judaism is very Kantian. <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant" REL="nofollow">Kant</A> posits that we can evaluate the effects of an action, by expanding upon the theoretical ramifications of the action. For example, if an action is such that all members of the community can take it, then it is good/right for an individual to take that action. However, the action is such that it would be bad if all members of the community took it, then it is bad/wrong for the individual to take that action.<BR/><BR/>Thus, while it is true that Judaism would not fall apart if an indidual made his/her own halakhic decisions, and changed an existing action, based on his/her own logic/morals. If all individuals acted in this fashion, then Judaism, as a cohesive community, would break apart. Therefore, it would be wrong for an individual to act that way, since it would be devastating to Judaism if all individuals acted that way.<BR/><BR/>SqaurePeg613 -- the best way to answer your questions, is to look at changes that have already occurred over time. Take, for example the way we warm up our food on Shabbat. Or the way we <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration" REL="nofollow">refrigerate</A> food on Shabbat. These methods did not exist 100 years ago! We are not <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaite" REL="nofollow">Karraites</A>. The way we practice Judaism is derived from the Torah of our forefathers, but it <B><I>looks</I></B> very different.<BR/><BR/>Another good example is to look at the role of women. 100 years ago, Jewish girls were not even receiving an Jewish education! (see <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bais_Yaakov" REL="nofollow">here</A>). Now, girls are <I>expected</I> to continue on to higher Jewish education. Just look how many seminaries there are!! Compare that to how many seminaries there were just 15 years ago! 50 years ago, there were NONE. Oops, sorry, EXACTLY 50 years ago, in 1958, the first Orthodox girl's seminary, <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machon_Gold" REL="nofollow">Machon Gold</A>, was founded. (Btw, it was Moshe's grandfather vision and dream to create a girl's seminary. He advocated and campaigned for it with great determination. Unfortunately, he passed away before the seminary doors opened. Machon Gold, was named in honor of Moshe's grandfather, Rabbi Ze'ev (Wolf) Gold <I>y'hi zichro baruch</I> (may his memory be a blessing))<BR/><BR/>Anyway, what I am saying is that even if I am in a rush, I have to be patient. I can work towards change within the system, but not without.<BR/><BR/>Let's be honest, these questions are not new. There were people who chose a different way, and formed movement that were committed to change. <B>Those movements have FAILED.</B> The children, and grandchildren of their members, including their founders, are completely assimilated. Even the elite are virtually alone in their commitment to Torah and Mitzvot.RivkA with a capital Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09411034058195730044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-84180733027155369392008-10-27T21:27:00.000+02:002008-10-27T21:27:00.000+02:00You said that Halacha does change, slowly. If we ...You said that Halacha does change, slowly. If we don't have anyone with authority to change things, then how does Halacha change at all?<BR/><BR/>Also, what do you mean "we are not in a hurry to change things"? There may not be any really pressing reason to change Halachot about umbrellas on Shabbat. But, I suspect that there are Halachot that you *would* be in a hurry to change. So when is it legitimate and when not? When are you in a hurry to change things and when not?Ilanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13870568775480176690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-69574384989297968812008-10-27T14:10:00.000+02:002008-10-27T14:10:00.000+02:00So, if I understood you correctly:We can't use umb...So, if I understood you correctly:<BR/><BR/>We can't use umbrellas on Shabbat because we cannot build them, based on a halakhic decision once made by a rabbi. <BR/><BR/>However, we no longer have to build umbrellas for ourselves; and as such, using an umbrella on Shabbat no longer requires what might be termed as "work" (I'm guessing this was the original spirit behind the decision?). <BR/><BR/>Yet, we still may not use umbrellas on Shabbat because we don't have a rabbinic figure with enough authority (what does this mean?) to reverse this decision. <BR/><BR/>I guess that my problem is that it seems to me that what I assume is the original spirit of the law seems to me nowadays irrelevant. <BR/><BR/>I don't think, though, that my theoretical decision to use an umbrella on Shabbat, due to the fact that I don't have to build it, threatens the continuity of the Jewish people. I think there are plenty of rituals/practices/ideas that are out there to hold the Jewish people together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-64158481163991462002008-10-27T13:34:00.000+02:002008-10-27T13:34:00.000+02:00SquarePeg613 & Lena --Two things.1. When in do...SquarePeg613 & Lena --<BR/><BR/>Two things.<BR/><BR/>1. When in doubt, go to the source.<BR/><BR/>Y said: "the <I>Gadol Hador</I> (leading Torah authority) said that we cannot use umbrellas because we cannot build them. And today, even though we don't have to build them anymore, we don't really have a <I>Gadol Hador</I> who has the proper authority to cancel the <I>takanah</I> (decision)"<BR/><BR/><BR/>2. What I explained to Y, which I think is the same answer for you, is that the <I>halakha</I> does change (adapt) over time, but it changes slowly. <BR/><BR/>As individuals, we do not have the authority to reverse, or reform, <I>halakhic</I> decisions. Judaism would not remain coherent, if everyone did his/her own thing, based on his/her own judgement. A certain amount of uniformity is paramount to our survival. <BR/><BR/>Umbrellas are a good example of this. There are one or two prominent rabbis who might have permitted the use of umbrellas, but did not because it was not acceptable in the greater community. (check out the link in my post). <BR/><BR/>It certainly seems as if these rabbis placed greater value in communal harmony, than in an individual preference.<BR/><BR/>We, as individuals, evaluate the ramifications of any given <I>halakha</I> based on our own, often limited view. Hopefully, our <I>Gedolim</I> have a wider view. <BR/><BR/>With time, things change, but we are not in a hurry to change things.<BR/><BR/>It might be frustrating to the individual. But, the system has worked for 2,000 years. And no other culture in the world can claim that level of continuity.RivkA with a capital Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09411034058195730044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-34047189215461945052008-10-27T10:24:00.000+02:002008-10-27T10:24:00.000+02:00I'm also bothered by what I think Lena brought up....I'm also bothered by what I think Lena brought up. On the one hand, the Rabbanim were human, made mistakes, and were subject to biases that affected their decisions. (Even though they may genuinely have sought the Truth). And on the other hand, it seems we can't much go back and change anything they've already decided. <BR/><BR/>So there seems to be a contradiction here. If they made mistakes, then we should be able to change things. If we can't much change things, then this should indicate that things are pretty much perfect the way they are. But it's not so clear that things actually *are* perfect the way they are!<BR/><BR/>Oh, and since you can't remember what Y said, can you summarize it yourself?Ilanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13870568775480176690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-37617646132313800072008-10-26T23:41:00.000+02:002008-10-26T23:41:00.000+02:00Muse -- well, you are a step ahead of me!Jackie --...Muse -- well, you are a step ahead of me!<BR/><BR/>Jackie -- busted! ;-)<BR/><BR/>Lena -- no trouble! But I'm not sure I understand your question. Could you please rephrase?<BR/><BR/>Squarepeg613 -- I wish I could remember exactly what she said!! It was classic, but too quick for me! I had barely finished my sentance when... "swish, swish!" She shot out her comment and moved on. She was done, and we were moving forward! Do not stop, do not pass go, do not collect $200.<BR/><BR/>Soldier's Mother -- that's one of the best things about this blog.... it has helped me to stop, look, and listen. And also to write it down... because I forget things!RivkA with a capital Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09411034058195730044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-48598622468707038392008-10-26T21:48:00.000+02:002008-10-26T21:48:00.000+02:00Some of our most precious moments are the ones whe...Some of our most precious moments are the ones where you just sit with your kids and talk. The real gift is recognizing that you've just been lucky enough to have that moment, where you aren't in a rush to go somewhere else, eat lunch, or whatever - just enjoy that moment. I had a couple of those over the chag as well - we went to the Kinneret for one day...and I just enjoyed watching my kids. Glad you had time to do what you wanted over chag...and were able to see your daughter "get" your ideas. It's especially challenging when you have kids living in bilingual settings.A Soldier's Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11370218893899121159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-89871423147065013872008-10-26T21:31:00.000+02:002008-10-26T21:31:00.000+02:00I wish I had been there for that conversation -- I...I wish I had been there for that conversation -- I have been puzzling over these questions for some time (as you know). Can you share Y's summary of your lecture?Ilanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13870568775480176690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-55170714157288441202008-10-26T19:59:00.000+02:002008-10-26T19:59:00.000+02:00"Ultimately, I was trying to explain why we, as in..."Ultimately, I was trying to explain why we, as individuals, can't just decide what to do, on our own, based on what seems logical to us."<BR/><BR/>Let me preface what I'm about to ask with this caveat: I don't mean to make trouble. :)<BR/><BR/>What confuses me, though, is that the rabbis who have made these decisions over the centuries are still human beings and still fallible. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, if I were well-versed in Jewish texts, I couldn't go back to a piece of original text, and then to all of the various commentaries on it, and decide that I think that what has become "standard" practice surrounding it doesn't seem right to me? <BR/><BR/>Or did I misunderstand your point?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-20651176838768511202008-10-26T16:51:00.000+02:002008-10-26T16:51:00.000+02:00Now I know why you were missing from shul Shabbat ...Now I know why you were missing from shul Shabbat morning..How fun!<BR/>Love,<BR/>JackieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2782551808324372235.post-30316361848205645452008-10-26T05:55:00.000+02:002008-10-26T05:55:00.000+02:00lovely postMy kids are all grown up, and since my ...lovely post<BR/>My kids are all grown up, and since my "job" is to teach English to the grandkids, the conversations are peculiar. I understand them, but they don't always understand me.Batyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402874037427009327noreply@blogger.com